Fm vs. Sdk exhaust manifold - Page 3 - Dodge SRT Forum
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post #31 of 62 (permalink) Old 01-04-2013, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by viper gts View Post
Would I need an 3" o2 housing with Mole's unit?
Yes sir.

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Mole' (STOCK TURBO) 16g BWS setup #s
380hp+ and 444tq+
11.7@122
1.71 60ft
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post #32 of 62 (permalink) Old 01-04-2013, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by 93stang434 View Post
Yeah but the fact of the matter is a bws on a stock manifold spiking up to 25 psi and holding 20ish psi isn't going to see a gain big enough to justify the cost.
I came to the same conclusion about the manifold. Potential gains just didn't pay for themselves.

When I installed my E1, I did my own manifold work (weld/port) similar to Realtune's but kept the wg valve. I even kept the stock O2 housing.

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Last edited by duster360; 01-07-2013 at 06:08 PM.
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post #33 of 62 (permalink) Old 01-04-2013, 01:32 PM
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You don't need cams and e85 to hit 400hp on a 16g bws. I did it without.

S&msrt did 415 on my 16g bws/race mani on e85 no cams
from my understanding one has truly pushed a hahn kit here on the srt forums then. ik the 420a and 4g63 guys have pushed 400+whp outa them for the srt crowd its an underrated turbo seams eveyone here is obsessed with either BWS or PTE turbo and feels that everything else is junk....
and reguardless of what you do to a stock mani sans weld in a new (bigger) turbine housing and run a larger frame turbo you will always have stupid high drive pressure to boost pressure ratios.. which is bad for turbine shaft bearing life. the tiny turbine housing that is stock just plain cannot flow enough to keep the ratio at decent numbers. idealy you want a 1:1 not 2+:1 like bws also what is shaft life on the BWS like i am constantly hearing of early bearing failure with them.
mole have you data logged the drive to boost ratios and whats the egts at the 400whp mark with ur bws???
not trying to crap but imo you are sacrificing alot in the top end with your setups.....IMO

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TIRED OF YOUR EGO HARD DATA IS MORE IMPORTANT AND USEFUL TO OTHERS SEEKING KNOWLEDGE AND THOES WANTING TO ADVANCE THE PLATFORM
DONT GET STUCK ON PRECISION TURBOS AND BWS THEY ARE NOT THE END ALL........ OTHER GREAT OPTIONS EXIST DO SOME RESEARCH DON'T BE A SHEEP
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post #34 of 62 (permalink) Old 01-04-2013, 01:42 PM
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hopefully you get well and get back home so we can see what a sdk manifold on stock block and do with another bws... 400?? easy lol
I hate being sick. I'll be home in a few hours.


My 18g billet bws with DCR 3" Bell mouth/Anti-surge housing will do good.

DCR spiced and Tuned by the Mad Scientist team
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Mole' (STOCK TURBO) 16g BWS setup #s
380hp+ and 444tq+
11.7@122
1.71 60ft
PM/email me for all your 16g/18g/20g BWS setup and DCR needs...... Darrell Cox Racing on facebook, 1-517-369-9636 10am-5pm est webstore... DCRSRT.com. email me at s3rmole@gmail.com .
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post #35 of 62 (permalink) Old 01-04-2013, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by loroku View Post
from my understanding one has truly pushed a hahn kit here on the srt forums then. ik the 420a and 4g63 guys have pushed 400+whp outa them for the srt crowd its an underrated turbo seams eveyone here is obsessed with either BWS or PTE turbo and feels that everything else is junk....
and reguardless of what you do to a stock mani sans weld in a new (bigger) turbine housing and run a larger frame turbo you will always have stupid high drive pressure to boost pressure ratios.. which is bad for turbine shaft bearing life. the tiny turbine housing that is stock just plain cannot flow enough to keep the ratio at decent numbers. idealy you want a 1:1 not 2+:1 like bws also what is shaft life on the BWS like i am constantly hearing of early bearing failure with them.
mole have you data logged the drive to boost ratios and whats the egts at the 400whp mark with ur bws???
not trying to crap but imo you are sacrificing alot in the top end with your setups.....IMO

I'll have to see if Nigel has my datalogs from my dynos. My top end is great. I took out a big wheel s3 at the track making 40more who Then my setup. Both same gas, tuner and Dyno on the same day.

I saw what nutz (RIP brotha) did with his S20g kit. He had a custom 3" o2 housing, cnc built head, crane cams, aem ems tuned and he still got beat by s3r (stock wheel) SRTs

DCR spiced and Tuned by the Mad Scientist team
Jay@N2MB and Nigel@BST (turbo666)
Mole' (STOCK TURBO) 16g BWS setup #s
380hp+ and 444tq+
11.7@122
1.71 60ft
PM/email me for all your 16g/18g/20g BWS setup and DCR needs...... Darrell Cox Racing on facebook, 1-517-369-9636 10am-5pm est webstore... DCRSRT.com. email me at s3rmole@gmail.com .
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post #36 of 62 (permalink) Old 01-04-2013, 09:27 PM
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Originally Posted by mole' View Post
I'll have to see if Nigel has my datalogs from my dynos. My top end is great. I took out a big wheel s3 at the track making 40more who Then my setup. Both same gas, tuner and Dyno on the same day.

I saw what nutz (RIP brotha) did with his S20g kit. He had a custom 3" o2 housing, cnc built head, crane cams, aem ems tuned and he still got beat by s3r (stock wheel) SRTs
what was his dyno numbers and mph cause the driver mod can be just as important what was rip brotha pressure ratio........... and who tuned his ems? was it tuned conservatively.
and the hahn super16g is practly the same turbo as what is factory on the evo ix.... those guys are pushing like 450awhp on them and 525awhp on the their 20g.... evo x turbo
mole ik your trying to sell your product and i totally understand that im eating into that with my argument
whats the bearing life like at your horsepower level with your car and pressure ratios?
taylor

Sold My Soul for a Neon

TIRED OF YOUR EGO HARD DATA IS MORE IMPORTANT AND USEFUL TO OTHERS SEEKING KNOWLEDGE AND THOES WANTING TO ADVANCE THE PLATFORM
DONT GET STUCK ON PRECISION TURBOS AND BWS THEY ARE NOT THE END ALL........ OTHER GREAT OPTIONS EXIST DO SOME RESEARCH DON'T BE A SHEEP

Last edited by loroku; 01-04-2013 at 09:36 PM.
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post #37 of 62 (permalink) Old 01-04-2013, 10:13 PM
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best numbers by a bone stock evo 9 turbo which is
467whp/445wtq on a mustang dyno
stock evo 9 turbo
TD05HR-16G6-10.5T
hahn race craft super 16g
TDO5H-16G-10CM2
the hahn unit uses a slightly smaller turbine housing but the evo has a divided(ie actually smaller than a non divided of the same size housing with make the two about even spool wise
compressor is the same iirc
imo if some one really pushed the 16g it would walk on your bws hands down and a well assembled properly tuned super20g would make your bws cry for its mom the cost to make a bws perform like a 16g imo is way too high and hahn 16g kits are selling for next to nothing ie $700 for the full kit and most hahn kits have people still rocking the antiquated port fueler or heavens forbid the old apexi SAFC and they wonder why the rnt fast as no one has tuned them properly to optimize their performance.

Sold My Soul for a Neon

TIRED OF YOUR EGO HARD DATA IS MORE IMPORTANT AND USEFUL TO OTHERS SEEKING KNOWLEDGE AND THOES WANTING TO ADVANCE THE PLATFORM
DONT GET STUCK ON PRECISION TURBOS AND BWS THEY ARE NOT THE END ALL........ OTHER GREAT OPTIONS EXIST DO SOME RESEARCH DON'T BE A SHEEP
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post #38 of 62 (permalink) Old 01-04-2013, 11:01 PM
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S16g turbo (with o2 housing). Picked up for 80bucks
Srt t3 manifold from another memeber 90 bucks shipped (plain looking)
Modified 1st gen 02 housing and welded on 3" 4 bolt flange (30 bucks for stupud flange)

Ms and 7.5 psi and crappy launches.....12.8 @108.....

Maybe I just got good deals lol.

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post #39 of 62 (permalink) Old 01-05-2013, 06:52 AM
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For me, Iím very pleased with the E1/FM Manifold/FM Intercooler Package. Hasnít let me down yet and the car is always turn key ready. Did I spend too much? I donít think so. Itís a proven combination that works well for the application it was intended for. I knew that going into it. Itís taken roughly 5 years to pull all this together. So the build up costs are spread out over time. I know my car will never be a 10 second or even an 11 second car. Iím good with that. A mid to high 12ís in the quarter in my opinion is a fast street car. I remember back in the 90ís with my GLHS hitting mid 13ís and thinking that was incredible. So there you go. Just an old fart giving his 2 centsÖ

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post #40 of 62 (permalink) Old 01-05-2013, 07:51 AM
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Originally Posted by mole' View Post
... I took out a big wheel s3 at the track making 40more who Then my setup. Both same gas, tuner and Dyno on the same day.
Here we go again . Putting my waders on for the "my bws is better than stage3" argument .

We should call this the Chewbacca Defense .


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post #41 of 62 (permalink) Old 01-05-2013, 12:10 PM Thread Starter
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Since I am switching to E85 next week with Dusters injectors and his custom tune, If I do the ported/elbowed manifold at the same time with the E85 I would never realize the HP gains from the manifold itself. At least I can get some dyno numbers and a feel of the car as is, add the manifold later and see if yields me any more power! Really looking forward to the E85 and see a bit of a power increase!
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post #42 of 62 (permalink) Old 01-05-2013, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by chicagoskittle View Post
show me a hahn 16g that trapped 122-123..

e1 is not a waste of money if you can find it cheaper than what usually people pay for brand new.Its been proven to make decent power on higher octane fuel.I know duster tuned couple of them and they made 350+ whp on e85.

Big turbo will always be a better choice no matter what but then supporting mods come in play and money might be an issue for some people.
No, but Hahn's S20G trapped 122 at 11.86. But they didn't use a fraction of the mods most people would bother with.

Hahn Racecraft - Automotive Turbosystems

Just posting knowledge. Not here to bash. I don't care to be involved with this pissing match.
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post #43 of 62 (permalink) Old 01-05-2013, 06:50 PM
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No, but Hahn's S20G trapped 122 at 11.86. But they didn't use a fraction of the mods most people would bother with.

Hahn Racecraft - Automotive Turbosystems

Just posting knowledge. Not here to bash. I don't care to be involved with this pissing match.
On street tires......

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post #44 of 62 (permalink) Old 01-06-2013, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by flylike2kites View Post
No, but Hahn's S20G trapped 122 at 11.86. But they didn't use a fraction of the mods most people would bother with.

Hahn Racecraft - Automotive Turbosystems

Just posting knowledge. Not here to bash. I don't care to be involved with this pissing match.
only reason im in this pissing match is that im tired of Fanboi's that blindly follow the heard imo do some research look at what has been done on more expensive platforms the evo and dsm guys have extracted crazy power numbers from 16g and 20g turbos shoot even the 14b turbos that came stock on the 1 g dsm has a bigger hot side than a stock turbofold.
nuff said..........

Sold My Soul for a Neon

TIRED OF YOUR EGO HARD DATA IS MORE IMPORTANT AND USEFUL TO OTHERS SEEKING KNOWLEDGE AND THOES WANTING TO ADVANCE THE PLATFORM
DONT GET STUCK ON PRECISION TURBOS AND BWS THEY ARE NOT THE END ALL........ OTHER GREAT OPTIONS EXIST DO SOME RESEARCH DON'T BE A SHEEP
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post #45 of 62 (permalink) Old 01-06-2013, 05:24 PM
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I'd rather just go big turbo...

298whp/405wtrq dynodynamics
stock turbo, bolt on's, E85, DSP, M&H's on Welds
60' 1.804
330' 5.007
1/8 7.701 @ 91.45 quickest 1/8: 7.61 @ 91
1/4 11.996 @ 114.7
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