I know a TT SRT6 Avenger would be pricey but mid to high 30s wouldn't be bad for a midsize performance sedan with 330 - 375ish hp and awd.. go hand in hand with a STi or EVO. People have said srt4 owners tend to move to a STi or EVO so why not at least keep them in the Dodge stable instead of overseas.
That or at least make a SRT4 version of the avenger. Half the NSRT4 engine was Mitsubishi.. lets snake their new AWD system
And as for the Direct Injection it is still a new piece of equipment that will take some time to fully figure out. believe me I know first had they are rough to tun my buddies 07 Gti loves to throw codes.
Lets see the next BIG Hemi at least bump up displacement and push for at least 450+hp. More power cause i seriously doubt the SRT8s will ever be light. TR6060s manuals would totally boost sales too.
Don't kill the VIPER! or the Grand Cherokee SRT models either.
What they need to do is bring back the SRT6 and make an AWD Avenger. Its already a pretty decent looking car and iv see an all black one that just looked mean. And Chrysler has had some AWD cars... granted they stole them from Mitsubishi.. Talon/Laser first gen TSi s where sick the stealth tt. Put a tt V6 in the avenger, with sweet body mods and I guarantee it would be a hot ride
And look at GM, Audi/VW, and Mazda they all have direct injection turbo 4 cylinders that make sick amounts of power.. With that said the next srt4 needs to tap into some of that engineering.
No offense, but the Stealth was a heavy unreliable pig of a car. I agree a twin turbo V6 would be nice but that's a lot of cost/power for a FWD car. The Avenger is a nice car EXCEPT for that ugly shit Dakota front end. A small percentage of people who like Dodge's probably don't mind it, but I hear time and time again about how people say the same thing: "Great car, nice styling, except wtf is with that front end?"
Also, those direct injection systems you are talking about make it very hard to upgrade the fuel system without some really complicated fuel management software, if it is possible at all. Build a small car around the all world 2.4 motor and Dodge will do just fine with it, then they can upgrade it to the Caliber version of that motor.
I want to say this: I myself do not mind the Caliber SRT-4, I think it is a hot little car, I would be driving one now had Dodge not pushed back production 18 months when they did, but people who like the car are in the minority, big time. Most buyers in line for a sport compact do not care for it, and that is bad news for Dodge.
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Quote: Originally Posted by Bella Lugrossi
good thing this isn't a race to see who's smarter.
it is bad news for dodge. hopefully they realise this soon. I can handle the looks of it, and to be honest I haven't even seen one in person. so I may really like it then. lets face it the neon isn't anything special either. imo it looks better.
I would prefer a lsd over the system they chose. the ms3 seems to be the better choice between the two. I really hope dodge bounces back strongly from this move though.
There are 3 Srt-4 Calibers here at the dealership right up the road from me I test drove one and it has ALOT of torque steer at low rpms It pulls hard to the right from it- no top end power
I know a TT SRT6 Avenger would be pricey but mid to high 30s wouldn't be bad for a midsize performance sedan with 330 - 375ish hp and awd.. go hand in hand with a STi or EVO. People have said srt4 owners tend to move to a STi or EVO so why not at least keep them in the Dodge stable instead of overseas.
That or at least make a SRT4 version of the avenger. Half the NSRT4 engine was Mitsubishi.. lets snake their new AWD system
And as for the Direct Injection it is still a new piece of equipment that will take some time to fully figure out. believe me I know first had they are rough to tun my buddies 07 Gti loves to throw codes.
Lets see the next BIG Hemi at least bump up displacement and push for at least 450+hp. More power cause i seriously doubt the SRT8s will ever be light. TR6060s manuals would totally boost sales too.
Don't kill the VIPER! or the Grand Cherokee SRT models either.
... resurrect the OMNI!! lol
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the only Mitsubishi part in the NSRT is the Turbofold....everything else is derived from the mexican 2.4......
Granted, the Turbofold is where the power comes from, but it's hardly 'half the engine'....especially since people go big turbo, and all the mitsu. stuff is gone...
I agree that CSRT is bullshit. I cant tell you how many times ive been asked if the SRT-4 is still made and i say yes the caliber has a SRT model, and everyone says WTF!
Like people have stated earlier, they need to restyle the NSRT and make it a monster, possibly AWD but highly unlikely. Obviously they arent going to bring back the neon body but something close to that affect would be alot more pleasing than the new CSRT slammed mini-van looking thing. Although i did drive the new CSRT i still can not stand the styling of it.
For instance look at the new Volvo C30 that thing is bad ass. 2 door hatchback, turbo engine, stock 230hp. I would jump all over that if i had the cash. Dodge needs to come up with soemthing like that if there going to stay in the sub compact performance scene. Evo's and STi's are still going to sell but the CSRT will not
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the only Mitsubishi part in the NSRT is the Turbofold....everything else is derived from the mexican 2.4......
Granted, the Turbofold is where the power comes from, but it's hardly 'half the engine'....especially since people go big turbo, and all the mitsu. stuff is gone...
X2, I think the problem is that people get the 2.4 engine in the SRT4/Turbo PT Cruiser confused with some of the mitsu engines that were actually used in some of the other vehicles.
awd is definitely out of the question but how badass would it be to see one be rwd. think about it. 1/2 the cost of making it awd and better for launching than a fwd would ever be. i agree that the neon will probably never make it back to the drawing board, but they could slightly remodel the avenger, make it rwd, keep the 2.4 world engine that is in the CSRT4 but start out with a turbo similar to the S3R to compensate for the extra drivetrain loss of the rwd from the fwd. or they could do what they should've done and release the deamon instead of the caliber and have that be rwd with the 2.4t world. a/f should've been stock option, even if only in the gauge cluster like where the CSRT4 has all of its readouts. lets face it, dodge f'd up with the caliber, awd is out of the question, rwd would be a strong possibility, and the fastes cars on the planet are rwd so why would you want to hinder yourself with an awd system.
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Packaging RWD in a subcompact vehicle is extremely difficult as it eats up a ton of interior room. You have to remember the NSRT4 and CSRT4 are both based on volume selling models and Dodge is not going to risk turning off the volume buyers to make less than 5% of the potential performance buyers happy. The SRT4 will always be a compromised vehilce it is just a question of how compromised. I think the NSRT4 was just as close to perfect as Dodge could produce for the money back in 03-05. It was IMHO the best all around vehicle in its market segment during its production run. The Caliber platform was just not as viable an option for a performance model compared to what else is available in the market segment.
Packaging RWD in a subcompact vehicle is extremely difficult as it eats up a ton of interior room. You have to remember the NSRT4 and CSRT4 are both based on volume selling models and Dodge is not going to risk turning off the volume buyers to make less than 5% of the potential performance buyers happy. The SRT4 will always be a compromised vehilce it is just a question of how compromised. I think the NSRT4 was just as close to perfect as Dodge could produce for the money back in 03-05. It was IMHO the best all around vehicle in its market segment during its production run. The Caliber platform was just not as viable an option for a performance model compared to what else is available in the market segment.
not necessarily. mazda has done it several times, granted they are all coupes; but you get my drift. when i was saying they could do a rwd system, it would be for the srt4 model specifically and the base model can still be fwd. if you think about it, it wouldn't cost them that much more money to make one model, srt4, different from the base. take the amount of regular neons produced in the same time frame as the NSRT4. there were only 25K NSRT4s made from the 03-05 models. 25K OVER 3 MODEL YEARS. the regular neons, SE, SXT, etc., were probably in the 100K range for the same time frame. the difference between rwd and fwd on the NSRT4 would've been minimal. the engine bay would have to be slightly longer, the mounting for the engine and tranny would obviously be different, there would've been a tunnel made for the drive shaft (which wouldn't really take up much room), and a new rear end axle and different front end suspension. not TOO far fetched if you look at it and the car would definitely be a one off model. and it might have even been roughly the same price. the trannys would've been roughly the same price, you are just switching the configuration of it. they probably could've taken one off of the jeep liberty and converted it to strickly rwd. the front setup would've had less parts because you would be getting rid of the front axles and just having a spindle setup like other rwd cars, and the only other parts to make it a rwd would be the drive shaft and the rear axle. the suspension would've stayed relatively the same but would've had to have new lower mounting hardware/brackets because of the differen't design. all in all it would've be a take a part off here and put a differen't part there. the only difference would be the slightly bigger turbo they would need to put on to compensate for the tad bit extra drivetrain loss.
Obviously you don't realize how much it would cost to design a car from scratch to somehow be both FWD and RWD and then only sell about 5% as RWD. This would never happen as they would never recoupe their initial investment. Look at the Kappa platform for GM they can't make a return on investment and it has four different models worldwide.
^ i was just referring to the neon. once you have a good base model to work with, there wouldn't be much "from scratch" needed to make the car rwd. just some minor changes and it is done. i've had my hand in a couple fwd -> awd conversions on the older eclipses and it isn't that hard to do it in a garage. the motor companies has tons more machines/tools available to them to tackle a simple task of making a car go from fwd->rwd.
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