I installed mine this weekend also, and didn't need any shims.
Did find something not so good though... The bracket that had "Rage" cut into it, the bevels for the tapered screws wasn't big enough. The HTOB was sitting on the screws instead of flat. Little work with a grinder on the screws and It was golden!
Clutch petal feels like a small slice of heaven though!
My kit had a sleeve in the bearing that takes up the slack between the Input Shaft and the bearing. It's not addressed in any of the instructions. Does it bottom in the bearing or sit above the O-ring like it currently is? Furthermore, my clutch fingers are actually higher than the surrounding pressure plate. How am i supposed to measure a value here? [Edit: NVM, read from below.]
OKay. I just took an overall clutch height since that's all the pp finger value was meant to get.
HTOB to flange: 2.750, Block to PP fingers: 3.125
3.125 - 2.75 (PPH - HTOB) = +.375
.375/.050 = 7.1
This means I had to install a total of 8 shims (7 plus the initial). Now when i put the trans on it's side, the stack of shims slides loose. THis cannot be good for keeping the thing set properly.
MY huge concern here is I think there's a typo and i hesitate to bolt this together because of it. I think i'm WAY overloading the bearing. The howto states if i end up with a negative value, shim. Then it lists a netative to POSITIVE value and doubles the shim count. Is this a typo or am I screwing it up? Someone chime in before I bolt it up, please.
__________________
-Matt
99 Neon ACR; Awaiting Resurrection.
05 Elise; WTF was I thinking?
Last edited by NWNeonMatt : 04-27-2008 at 12:28 AM.
I didn't divide the preload by the thickness. I divided the amount of free space by the thickness of the shims to account for it if i read it right to prevent having to remeasure after every shim.
And no, I dind't install it. It looked wrong... it is wrong... but my +.375 isn't wrong.
Quote: Originally Posted by The Howto on pg 1
If you end up with a negative number like -.030 to -.045 add in gold shim and remeasure your Htob Depth and recalculate. If you are -.046 to .095 add 2 shims. The shims are .050" thick..
Shoot for a preload of .005" to .020".
Since negative values indicate less shims and positive values indicate more shims in this statement, i was working under the idea that I have to chew up all but .005ish of it.
Thus if i need to add more shims, and each shim is .050, and i need to eat up 3/8ths of an inch (.375") it's not a stretch of the imagination to say .375/.05 = 7.1 shims.
Doesn't make it right, but it does make the how-to wrong, I think. I have NOT assembled, it looks wrong, hence my asking.
If there's a typo in that .095 value, i have to ask. Is a positive value (my .375) a clearance or interference value? I've been working under the presumption that positive is clearance based solely on that positive value clearance equalling more shims. Based on that number if it's clearance it's 7 shims plus the base shim.
If it's interference, I need to remove part of my trans to fit properly. Which way do I go?
Last edited by NWNeonMatt : 04-28-2008 at 01:39 AM.
.375 = your preload. .05 = shim thickness. I still don't understand why you're dividing these numbers. You only add shims if your preload is negative. You need to take shims away because the fingers on your pressure plate are sticking out!
I was dividing that number to figure out how many shims I needed based on positive numbers being presumed clearance based on the +.095 number above.
If they're interference/preload, then i've got a whole new problem.... if I'm preloaded 3/8ths of an inch without any shims, and I can only remove a sixteenth (the base shim, ignoring the other .350 I added), I'm still way overpreloaded even with nothing there.
yeah but a positive number is preload..
pph - htob = postive means no shims...
I'll quote from the original instructions..
Ok, now for the Math.
Take your FH and subtract your IT.
(fh).320 - (it).127 = .193"
Subtract this number from your PPH.
(pph)3.11" - .193" = 2.917"
Now Subtract your HTOB Depth from this number.
2.917" - (htob depth)2.905 = .012
.012 is the amount of preload you will have on the bearing.
If you end up with a negative number like -.030 to -.045 add in gold shim and remeasure your Htob Depth and recalculate. If you are -.046 to .095 add 2 shims. The shims are .050" thick..
Shoot for a preload of .005" to .020".
Remember to start with atleast one shim. If you have more than .025" preload with one shim you can sand the shim down to achieve the desired preload.
I was dividing that number to figure out how many shims I needed based on positive numbers being presumed clearance based on the +.095 number above.
If they're interference/preload, then i've got a whole new problem.... if I'm preloaded 3/8ths of an inch without any shims, and I can only remove a sixteenth (the base shim, ignoring the other .350 I added), I'm still way overpreloaded even with nothing there.
Take all the shims and make sure your bleeder is open .. make sure that the bearing is fully collapsed and remeasure the HTOB height. Also you should mark and file your plate attaching screws to make sure that the HTOB unit is a far down as it will go..
Take all the shims and make sure your bleeder is open .. make sure that the bearing is fully collapsed and remeasure the HTOB height. Also you should mark and file your plate attaching screws to make sure that the HTOB unit is a far down as it will go..
It's actually only a half-inch of spacers (I measured last night) and it was removed a long time ago.
I somehow misread positive being preload and i know I didn't expressly collapse the bearing as i've never expanded it. I'll try collapsing it further tonight, but i'd think it'd start at 0.
Quote: Originally Posted by Nemo Foss
yeah but a positive number is preload..
pph - htob = postive means no shims...
I'll quote from the original instructions..
All is clear now. somehow i missed the final line there. Now I gotta hope that the bearing's almost 3/8ths of an inch expanded. The single shim in there when i measured was only .045 from my measurement, not .120 thick.
Thanks for the clarification. If this works, my car'll have a motor for the first time since 2005 in it tonight.
Bearing moved, not so much collapsed as repositioned itself. Bought me an eighth or so. Without a shim i'm still .120 preloaded. Acceptable? Well over the .020 max indicated before.
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