isn't that entrapment to be going around instigating races or do the jackasses instigate with the undercover cops?
Entrapment doesn't exist in Florida. Meaning they can do it if they want to. Just like they have some in Constuction uniforms clocking you and all. It's more "undercover" work if you will then actually being entrapment. Your aware of the situation yet you choose to break it... it's all on you.
They can hide on the side of a building, they can hide behind a bush, etc. Fighting it in court will not work. It's almost like you trying to sell drugs to an undercover cop. They act like any other bystander. That scenario you would think is entrapment but you knew what you were doing. They need a better stronge hold in their case by catching you first hand.
isn't that entrapment to be going around instigating races or do the jackasses instigate with the undercover cops?
Entrapment doesn't exist in Florida. Meaning they can do it if they want to. Just like they have some in Constuction uniforms clocking you and all. It's more "undercover" work if you will then actually being entrapment. Your aware of the situation yet you choose to break it... it's all on you.
They can hide on the side of a building, they can hide behind a bush, etc. Fighting it in court will not work. It's almost like you trying to sell drugs to an undercover cop. They act like any other bystander. That scenario you would think is entrapment but you knew what you were doing. They need a better stronge hold in their case by catching you first hand.
Thats fucked up. As for your examples, well that's totally different. A cop can clock you from wherever undercover that's fine but he can't say do me a favor and go 80 through those 2 cones we need to test something and then pull you over. What you're saying is more of a sting operation because you are voluntary taking the initiative to do the action, you are not being drawn in. That's why what I said was entrapment, they can't trap or corner you. Like at sears when I did Loss Prevention in CT we couldn't unwrap and throw open game cases on the floor waiting for people to come steal them and then get them, we couldn't do that, that's a setup (entrapment)
Same for street racing if a cop comes up to you revving burning out screaming come on out the window etc that's a trap and you can't do that. But if you are revving at him or selling the drugs and they take the bait your fucked because you initiated the action, but a cop can't come up to anyone and say buy drugs and then not leave you alone and peer pressure you into that crap. That's illegal. Some argue "well you should know better" yeah but in a more broad sense they are being bullies, I mean what if someone collapses under peer pressure or has some sort of medical issue they can't handle that kind of stress or w/e the case may be ya know. I mean FL has some easy laws compared to CT but they also have some bullshit ones as well and I wouldn't support some of them. My .02
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Last edited by siberian57 : 10-08-2007 at 12:58 PM.
A cop doesn't tell you to do something then book you. What they do is see if you will comprise a deal and then see if you go through with the deal. Almost the same tatic they use for a drug bust they use on a racing bust. You agree to race this person, not aware they are an undercover. You go out on the street and line up with them. That's enough to get you. Almost like you taking the cash and handing over the dope. You sealed the deal before even splitting.
There's no trap if you line up with them. They rev at you and you "decide" to go then that was your own fault. You don't know if someone's a cop yet a lone know if they are a bystander with an M16 sitting on their passenger seat. You haven't seen it yet but go drive around Orlando. Some cars they have impounded due to street racing they now use them as undercover cop cars for street racing busts. Ranging from Honda's, VW's and even a Subaru. You line up its fair game.
When you at somewhere "watching" street racing. They have the right to block off every road possible and detain everyone. You will receive a spectating citation. So yes they have the right to trap you. You haven't experienced yet. You think they are going to say, "Oh you can go... you weren't racing"? They are going to give everyone there tickets.
A cop doesn't tell you to do something then book you. What they do is see if you will comprise a deal and then see if you go through with the deal. Almost the same tatic they use for a drug bust they use on a racing bust. You agree to race this person, not aware they are an undercover. You go out on the street and line up with them. That's enough to get you. Almost like you taking the cash and handing over the dope. You sealed the deal before even splitting.
There's no trap if you line up with them. They rev at you and you "decide" to go then that was your own fault. You don't know if someone's a cop yet a lone know if they are a bystander with an M16 sitting on their passenger seat. You haven't seen it yet but go drive around Orlando. Some cars they have impounded due to street racing they now use them as undercover cop cars for street racing busts. Ranging from Honda's, VW's and even a Subaru. You line up its fair game.
When you at somewhere "watching" street racing. They have the right to block off every road possible and detain everyone. You will receive a spectating citation. So yes they have the right to trap you. You haven't experienced yet. You think they are going to say, "Oh you can go... you weren't racing"? They are going to give everyone there tickets.
Every state is different.
You're right every state is different, and coming from one that beleives in entrapment (which I thought was national) I personally just don't agree, but hey that's my opinion. As to the topic itself:
A cop will obv not say go through these cones at 80 we need to test something and then nail you. I just said that purposely to stress what the difference between from what you said (which was about how cops and sit anywhere uncover and clock you on speed) and what I said (about how entrapment is just that, a trap and that because someone is undercover doesn't mean anything unless they instigate it)
The sting operations with drugs are a little different, but essentially you are right, they can offer it to you, but offering is a very loose term to them and so is mutually. If they go from one guy to the next to the next etc all in like 10 min or in ANY way pressure you to do a deal without any reason to beleive you will do so (which some would argue is profiling otherwise) you can't be at fault. And to say that it won't work in court is not true. If people can sue mcdonalds for making them fat and sue dunkin donuts for not putting this beverage is hot on the cup well I'm pretty sure anything can be done. And that's in court only. Obviously if someone stops you they are very confident and even if the cop is wrong (which I'm sure many of us have been in a situation where they were) they won't admit to it and will still say your wrong and give you shit anyway and you won't get out of it. These matters (like most) are taken care of in a court room not right there on the spot in your car. And you are right where mostly they kinda side with the cop, however that might be for many reasons that are supported statistically, (you're young, a boy, talk/dress like a gangster whatever the case may be) but that's for things which I guess are arguably minor in comparrison to this topic. However if you go in there, present a case well thought out, and you bring up the word profiling, entrapment whatever they USUALLY have second thoughts especially if you argue well. Ive seen it done. It's like if you're a a minority and pull the race card, you know how some people will cower to that especially if it's a real life issue in anyplace. Some people out there don't know the law or their rights and/or they know/think they were at fault and just sit there and take it. However back to the issue at hand.
Entrapment is defined legally as "A person is 'entrapped' when he is induced or persuaded by law enforcement officers or their agents to commit a crime that he had no previous intent to commit; and the law as a matter of policy forbids conviction in such a case." It also goes on more and more about it but the big thing they stress is the intention. If you have no intention than legally you can't be at fault. Which more or less supports my thoughts of; you have to give them a strong reason not just because you look the part (that won't fly in court especially if you can prove it) which alternately is also profiling. But all that said, if a cop instigates something for no reason (burning out/yelling out the window, revving multiple times) when the guy next to him is just looking straight ahead without any interest with arguably no intention of doing so than they can't be at fault. But if the guy is showing interest giving signs looking at the light, revving talkin shit w/e then anything is fair game then. If they race they obv agree, but who's to say that was their original intent, and not just get away from me or will you go away if i do this type of deal, thats why entrapment was even legally considered in the first place because there are dirty cops, I worked with them and I know they infer it heavily. and that's why they target us b/c we're more likely initiate something like that especially if they show up in a modded cobra or something.
As for the street racing spectators. I have in fact experienced that, however that is not entrapment. The people who are there were in no way "trapped" by the cops. Blocking the exit is not entrapment it isn't based off physical means like that. And if they give you a ticket for loitering or being part of the racing that's fine, but that's everyone being caught in the act. Unless like at sonics if you are a paying customer they can't touch you. It's not someone setting everyone up. It isn't cops organizing an entire meet and street racing events and running the show just to bust people later. However if that was the case that is entrapment.
I think this is a great topic of debate and I like intelligent debates and I think it's good you are discussing it with me and we're both mature enough to keep things calm. It'd be nice to hear some other thoughts on the topic though I'll give you credit for your views though
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exactly, but all the cops really say is that the girl/boy is 12/13 but these guys initiate everything, so it's fair game (they send pics, say i wanna have sex and talk dirty etc) which is illegal on it's own so they just top off things by having him come and then boom.
Aren't you a law student. come hop in to the convo
exactly, but all the cops really say is that the girl/boy is 12/13 but these guys initiate everything, so it's fair game (they send pics, say i wanna have sex and talk dirty etc) which is illegal on it's own so they just top off things by having him come and then boom.
Aren't you a law student. come hop in to the convo
im not is law school yet but i can see where you and jesus are coming from. you both make excellent points. im not to familar with laws on street racing or street racing busts but from what i was told if a officer who is under cover and gets you to agree to race and you do. its would be the same if he were to go up to you and ask for drugs knowing your a drug dealer and knowing you will sell to him. and the same for prostitute stings. its like bait if you bite your done! but then again you can get arrested, but not charged all depending if the cops did everything by the book. many times cops dont think you wont notice or you dont know any better. for instance ive had a cop ask to search my car, i had noting to hide but i still said no you have to have a warrant! see most people dont know that. also ive been pulled over by a cop sitting in total darkness at night before, he was a total dick and when he was writing my tickect and came back to my car i asked him " arent you suppose to have atleast you park light on"? he gave me this long explination then ripped the ticked because he didn't know i would know that.
it all depends on the situation and where it takes place. see know if a unmarked cop were to rev at you at a light when your minding your own business NOT looking to race and not around or coming from popular street racing hangouts and you race him, you would get a speeding tickect and at worst reckess driving depending on the situtation.
heck everyone likes little light to light race ive seen my dad do and ive seen minivans do it also.
i believe if your at the causeway or the sonic meet and you agree to race, and it happens to be a cop well your done! now if you are at the mall leaving and someones gets next to you at a light and you run him that i dont believe would be street racing. see it all depends on the situation and time and place.
its like if your in a neighborhood know for drug dealing and prostution and you dont obviously live there and you fall for a sting your done its the risk your taking.
i believe if your at the causeway or the sonic meet and you agree to race, and it happens to be a cop well your done! now if you are at the mall leaving and someones gets next to you at a light and you run him that i dont believe would be street racing. see it all depends on the situation and time and place.
bro.. the cops dont see it that way.
if you have an acceleration contest(aslong as you dont go over the speed limit) you cannot get busted.
if you are in an accelerating contest and exceed the speed limit, it is racing.
if you are just going over the speed limit, w/o an acceleration contest, its speeding.
remember the bust in 02-03 in miami in okeechobee blvd? (where fhp blocked off the road and issued over 100 tickets, and over 5 arrests)? I was there. i was issued a ticket. my ticket was for witnessing an illegal activity and not reporting it.(spectating) its a $100 ticket. and if youre in a running car w/o seatbelt add another $50. best bet, only race someone who you know. or someone who you know knows.
or take it to the track. miami had (and has) a huge prob w/street racing. now they have a 24hr 1/8 mile track on okeechobee. upon entering, it says no betting, and they are not responsible for what you do on that premesis. you die, its your fault. they just dont want others to to get injured in others stupidity.
some people know how to TRULY race. most ahve mommy and daddy buy parts off ebay and add them to thier 92 hatch and say its a racecar. (those at causeway on sat know what i mean)
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i believe if your at the causeway or the sonic meet and you agree to race, and it happens to be a cop well your done! now if you are at the mall leaving and someones gets next to you at a light and you run him that i dont believe would be street racing. see it all depends on the situation and time and place.
bro.. the cops dont see it that way.
if you have an acceleration contest(aslong as you dont go over the speed limit) you cannot get busted.
if you are in an accelerating contest and exceed the speed limit, it is racing.
if you are just going over the speed limit, w/o an acceleration contest, its speeding.
remember the bust in 02-03 in miami in okeechobee blvd? (where fhp blocked off the road and issued over 100 tickets, and over 5 arrests)? I was there. i was issued a ticket. my ticket was for witnessing an illegal activity and not reporting it.(spectating) its a $100 ticket. and if youre in a running car w/o seatbelt add another $50. best bet, only race someone who you know. or someone who you know knows.
or take it to the track. miami had (and has) a huge prob w/street racing. now they have a 24hr 1/8 mile track on okeechobee. upon entering, it says no betting, and they are not responsible for what you do on that premesis. you die, its your fault. they just dont want others to to get injured in others stupidity.
some people know how to TRULY race. most ahve mommy and daddy buy parts off ebay and add them to thier 92 hatch and say its a racecar. (those at causeway on sat know what i mean)
crap i meant that, yea if your going over the speed limit it would be racing sorry its been a long day. thanks for the catch
I'll give you credit for your views though 
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