Wife Got A Camera Speeding Ticket (RedFlex) - Dodge SRT Forum
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-26-2011, 08:59 PM Thread Starter
Super Moderator
 
RTShadow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Middle Earth
Posts: 14,386
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Lifetime Premium Member
Wife Got A Camera Speeding Ticket (RedFlex)

Wife was driving through Arizona and apparently was photographed and was allegedly speeding through a tiny nothing town that just happens to have a couple hundred feet of judisdiction over a busy freeway. She doesn't remember seeing a sign or anything, and from some research online appparently this particular town is notorious for inflating the speeds to increase the ticket costs.

Of course I'm going by what a bunch of other people are saying, and my wife has no idea about her speed because she doesn't remember any sign. She was driving a rental car at the time, and the only reason we know about the ticket is the company in question contacted the rental car company who in turn sent us a processing fee letter. I have a few questions about this because I have no experience whatsoever with this sort of thing.

From doing research online, apparently you cannot be served by mail, per Arizona law, so if we were to sign and pay the ticket, we would waive that right:

Court of Appeals of Arizona, Division One, Department C 171 Ariz. 449; 831 P.2d 448; 1992 Ariz. App. May 12, 1992 The appellant's recourse when a defendant fails to execute the acknowledgement of receipt is to continue the hearing and serve the complaint by some other authorized method. See Ariz.R.Civ.P. 4.1(c)(3). Until the magistrate's court obtains personal jurisdiction, it has no power to enter an order of civil sanction against a defendant.

Basically then, it would appear that someone could just completely ignore the letter because they would need to be personally served in order for the ticket to be lawful. Not to mention that apparently they have waived the points with the idea that you will pay a ridiculously high fine.

Before someone comes up with the "If she was speeding pay the f'ing ticket", I would have no issue with paying such a ticket had this been done correctly, however a photo ticket gives us no info about where she was at, what the situation was at the time, I don't know the relation of the camera to the actual speed limit sign, obstruction of signs, etc.

Not only that, but Arizona has apparently (and illegally) ruled that you can no longer request discovery for traffic citations, which fails to provide due process for the plaintiff. Therefore I would not be able to ask for important information that would let me know how to proceed with the case.

Anybody have any history with these?


Last edited by RTShadow; 03-26-2011 at 09:02 PM.
RTShadow is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-26-2011, 09:13 PM
SRTforums Member
 
flomoloko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Lesotho
Posts: 1,267
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I hope you fight and win this completely. Sounds like a shakedown scam disguised as a legit traffic camera (if there is such a thing). I think Arizona is the corporate location for the red light camera company that has installed all those things all over the U.S., so I'm guessing they probably have lots of influence and leeway in Arizona.

flomoloko is offline  
post #3 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-26-2011, 11:39 PM
SRTforums Member
 
toasteroven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Up North, eh!
Posts: 4,439
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Ignore it. Same situation - speeding ticket in the mail months after the alleged incident. Photo has 3 cars in it, only one mine. And my right blinker was on, indicating I was turning right after the intersection. Dug through bank statements and found a gas station I had filled up at right past the intersection on the ticket. So I doubt I was speeding.

I could have sent all that in to prove my innocence, but why.

If you're not served, it doesn't exist.


"This car is 100% sh*ts and giggles."
"Speed has never killed anyone. Suddenly becoming stationary... that's what gets you." Jeremy Clarkson
SRT-4 to SRT8, SRT-4 Production Epitaph, Canadian SRT-4 Registry
toasteroven is offline  
post #4 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-27-2011, 10:54 AM
SRTforums Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Tucson
Posts: 6,066
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
I'm in AZ. Wait to be served. They won't because you are in another state I bet. The company is just fishing for free money if you are dumb enough to pay. Plus, you don't live in arizona, so it doesn't matter. If after 180days and you haven't been served, you are scott free.

2005 SRT-4, hole in the block, rebuild in progress
2002 Camaro SS M6, It's alive!
2003 SRT-4 Sold!
enginjoe is offline  
post #5 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-27-2011, 08:45 PM
SRTforums Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 325
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I'm wondering if its a company, or the police department sending the notice for the speeding?

is it a real ticket? i'm intrested to see if they could put in warrants for arrest for failures to comply or pay a fine.

Is there not an option to plead not guilty? if not then it is not real, you always have the legal right to plead not guilty.
edit: i guess in Arizona you can not plead "not guilty"?

TheNumberOneD is offline  
post #6 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-27-2011, 10:27 PM
SRTforums Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Tucson
Posts: 6,066
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNumberOneD View Post
I'm wondering if its a company, or the police department sending the notice for the speeding?

is it a real ticket? i'm intrested to see if they could put in warrants for arrest for failures to comply or pay a fine.

Is there not an option to plead not guilty? if not then it is not real, you always have the legal right to plead not guilty.
edit: i guess in Arizona you can not plead "not guilty"?
It's a real ticket, but it's not the same as if you had gotten it from a live police officer. If you respond to the mailed letter, then you basically served yourself and you have to go to court and plead, pay the fine/go to traffic school. If you don't respond, they don't put out a warrant, they send people to serve you. If you get served, then you have to deal with the ticket like mentioned above. If you never get served, then after 180 days it's done, you have gotten out of it.

I got out of two of them because the ticket was sent to me and it wasn't my picture in the ticket. Someone else was driving my car. I figured they wouldn't waste time to serve me, but they did, so that sucked. This was when the cameras were fairly new and nobody knew what to do. The guy at the window in the court clerk office where I went to find out how to deal with it asked me if I knew who it was that was in the picture so they could send them the ticket. I told him to stick it in his ear (I said that - my dad used to say that to people), I'm not helping them with their stupid speeding cameras. He was mad, but he couldn't do anything about it. I had to go see a judge so I went into the courtroom, waited my turn and said this isn't me, dismissed.
enginjoe is offline  
post #7 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-28-2011, 05:40 AM
SRTforums Member
 
JmalB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Tucson, Az
Posts: 13,612
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Had to be small town as Phoenix no longer uses its freeway speed cameras anymore and Tucson doesn't have any on the 10.

R.I.P. Gregory Brewer 01/31/51-07/01/12
Loud pipes and other myths.
Quote:
Originally Posted by essareteesicks View Post
Your e-penis is a mighty e-beast and feared by e-tribes everywhere.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ILLJIM69
and for the record............i fail!!!!!!!!!!
jim
JmalB is offline  
post #8 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-29-2011, 10:59 AM
SRTforums Member
 
dodgezdad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Upstate SC
Posts: 3,008
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
SC has ruled these photo speed traps illegal unless the offender receives the ticket within a hour which eliminates the little towns from mail in tickets.

They still have a photo speed trap but have several officers to serve the ticket. The town is Ridgeland SC on heavy traveled I95. There trouble is with only 2100 people in the town is supporting a police force at all. The country should be patrolled by the County Sheriff instead of setting up traps.
dodgezdad is offline  
post #9 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-29-2011, 12:51 PM
SRTforums Member
 
CALVspeedfreak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: las vegas NV
Posts: 122
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
My fiance and I were driving through the Phoenix area about 2 years ago and were practically stunned by the bright flash we received in our faces in the middle of the night. We also never received a ticket...but we were in a rental.
CALVspeedfreak is offline  
post #10 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-29-2011, 01:57 PM
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 1,071
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
If it's anything like Redflex in NM, the worst they can do is send you to collections. Albuquerque is kicking them out too, a lot promised from Redflex, a lot of pissed off voters.
The ///Man is offline  
post #11 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-29-2011, 06:12 PM Thread Starter
Super Moderator
 
RTShadow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Middle Earth
Posts: 14,386
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Lifetime Premium Member
Did more research, including contacting a lawyer in Arizona for a consultation on the issue. This IS indeed a dinky town of less than 2000 people, and there are a ton of complaints about them online, apparently this is more of a revenue generation scheme for them than traffic control.

Apparently Enterprise is the only rental company that just gives up information to Redflex, the other rental companies ignore requests for the information, not only that but Enterprise hits you up with a 10 dollar fee for "processing" simply because they are stupid enough to give the camera company your info, despite not being lawfully required to without a subpoena. I called Enterprise and argued with some idiot lady about it, got the fee removed but she kept talking herself into a hole by trying to say they are 'required' to turn over that information, when in fact they are NOT. Oh well, their choice, I let them know it is likely the last time I rent from them.

The lawyer I talked to pretty much confirmed what I already assumed: without actually being personally summoned, you cannot be lawfully required to pay a fine. What does this mean? Well, you know when you sign a ticket when an officer pulls you over, or if you don't he can arrest you? That is because by signing the ticket, you are not saying you are guilty or not guilty, you are merely verifying that you were there at that moment and you are aware that you were pulled over and ticketed. If you are summoned through the mail, that isn't a lawful summons. If you respond to the mailing, then you acknowledge receipt of the summons and you become responsible for paying the fine or going to court. There is currently a federal lawsuit moving its way up that contends it's unconstitutional to send motorists tickets by mail and to addresses outside town limits, which I would back, that's outrageous.

I did see that Phoenix just recently removed all of their cameras, something the lawyer verified, I am also following the South Carolina camera debate closely too. Something that really pissed me off was reading how the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration calls speed cameras "a very effective countermeasure to crashes". That is a COMPLETELY false statement, utter bullshit, as every independent study that has been done on these cameras and red light cameras has shown there is absolutely no change whatsoever in driving behavior or accidents as a result of these cameras being in place.

Apparently more and more big cities are ditching these cameras, and the fact that smaller communities are keeping them is enough evidence for me that it is more about $$$$ than safety.

RTShadow is offline  
post #12 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-29-2011, 09:55 PM
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 1,071
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by RTShadow View Post
Did more research, including contacting a lawyer in Arizona for a consultation on the issue. This IS indeed a dinky town of less than 2000 people, and there are a ton of complaints about them online, apparently this is more of a revenue generation scheme for them than traffic control.

Apparently Enterprise is the only rental company that just gives up information to Redflex, the other rental companies ignore requests for the information, not only that but Enterprise hits you up with a 10 dollar fee for "processing" simply because they are stupid enough to give the camera company your info, despite not being lawfully required to without a subpoena. I called Enterprise and argued with some idiot lady about it, got the fee removed but she kept talking herself into a hole by trying to say they are 'required' to turn over that information, when in fact they are NOT. Oh well, their choice, I let them know it is likely the last time I rent from them.

The lawyer I talked to pretty much confirmed what I already assumed: without actually being personally summoned, you cannot be lawfully required to pay a fine. What does this mean? Well, you know when you sign a ticket when an officer pulls you over, or if you don't he can arrest you? That is because by signing the ticket, you are not saying you are guilty or not guilty, you are merely verifying that you were there at that moment and you are aware that you were pulled over and ticketed. If you are summoned through the mail, that isn't a lawful summons. If you respond to the mailing, then you acknowledge receipt of the summons and you become responsible for paying the fine or going to court. There is currently a federal lawsuit moving its way up that contends it's unconstitutional to send motorists tickets by mail and to addresses outside town limits, which I would back, that's outrageous.

I did see that Phoenix just recently removed all of their cameras, something the lawyer verified, I am also following the South Carolina camera debate closely too. Something that really pissed me off was reading how the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration calls speed cameras "a very effective countermeasure to crashes". That is a COMPLETELY false statement, utter bullshit, as every independent study that has been done on these cameras and red light cameras has shown there is absolutely no change whatsoever in driving behavior or accidents as a result of these cameras being in place.

Apparently more and more big cities are ditching these cameras, and the fact that smaller communities are keeping them is enough evidence for me that it is more about $$$$ than safety.

Either this week or next Albuquerque city council is supposed to give a vote on whether to do another temporary extension of the Redflex contract. They did one in November, but the state said that if they want cameras on their roads they wanted to get paid for it. Pretty much after paying the state, paying Redflex, there was no money for the city, so they pulled them from the state owned highways, and those were the big money makers. The state also banned the camera vans on state highways. They keep extending the contract in the city pending research on if they actually deter crashes, but they are always waiting on more research, which we all know means they don't have the evidence they are looking for and sold the city on.
The ///Man is offline  
post #13 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-30-2011, 04:29 PM
SRTforums Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Copiague, NY
Posts: 110
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Does anyone have any idea about these mailed tickets for red lights??

I would assume the same?

I just got about a week ago in the mail that I ran a red light .002 after it turned red.

The company is from Arizona, I'm from NY.

Sorry to thread jack
Chille_ is offline  
post #14 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-30-2011, 11:14 PM Thread Starter
Super Moderator
 
RTShadow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Middle Earth
Posts: 14,386
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Lifetime Premium Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chillebabes View Post
Does anyone have any idea about these mailed tickets for red lights??

I would assume the same?

I just got about a week ago in the mail that I ran a red light .002 after it turned red.

The company is from Arizona, I'm from NY.

Sorry to thread jack
You aren't really thread jacking, you are dealing with the same thing we are dealing with. Ignore the mailing, but check your license at 3 and then 6 months to make sure they don't make an attempt to suspend it, they shouldn't, based on the arizona law I quoted in the original post. Again, I am not condoning speeding or running red lights, but I am really against enforcement that you don't even find out about until weeks later, in a state that says you can't ask for discovery as part of your due process.

RTShadow is offline  
post #15 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-30-2011, 11:26 PM
SRTforums Member
 
blackbird_R/T's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Temecula, CA
Posts: 6,819
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chillebabes View Post
The company is from Arizona, I'm from NY.
Just to make sure, was the ticket in Arizona or just mailed from a company headquartered in Arizona that does the processing?

Eric H. - '04 Neon SRT-4 (eBlue/S2) - '04 SRT-4 (blk/stock)
'92 Dodge Daytona IROC R/T --- -- '91 Dodge Spirit R/T
plus a couple other turbo Dodges, a Cobalt, a couple Focus, a V-wagon, and some other stuff...
blackbird_R/T is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome