That needs to be taken seriously. It has to go way beyond trim kits and different wheels wrapped in one-size-larger shit ATs.
The SRTs are pretty damn serious. I figure these will be equally serious.
Honestly, it's way easier to make a car go fast and handle well than it is to make a serious off-road vehicle that won't break shit or flop/roll.
Short of the Rubicon and Power Wagon, nothing from ChryCo was/is all the impressive in stock trim off road.
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Quote: Originally Posted by edgeandink
The reason they can put down decent 1/4mile times is mostly in part to the solid rear axel and its ability to hook and go. But we all know that doesnt mean crap from a dig.
IMO, they should start with the Patriot. It's styling is dead-on and I really think mileage/fuel cost concerns are going to play a big role in the future. Lots of Jeepers (myself included) daily drive our rigs, and lets face it, a Jeep that gets 15/20 stock isn't doing any better upgraded to 31s or 35s, heavy duty steel bumpers and a half-ton of unreachable dirt packed into various nooks and crannies of their frames.
That would sell very well, I think. Take it up to 200ish HP and make sure it has at least a locking rear, price it proportionately below the Rubicon and above other Patriot models and I think it would be a winner.
Even looking at the Grand Cherokee section of many Jeep forums, damn near everyone that's not putting them on 22s is putting in 2" budget boosts to run slightly larger tires. Jeep really needs to correct that almost all of its vehicles run uncharacteristically small tires.
That needs to be taken seriously. It has to go way beyond trim kits and different wheels wrapped in one-size-larger shit ATs.
The SRTs are pretty damn serious. I figure these will be equally serious.
Honestly, it's way easier to make a car go fast and handle well than it is to make a serious off-road vehicle that won't break shit or flop/roll.
Short of the Rubicon and Power Wagon, nothing from ChryCo was/is all the impressive in stock trim off road.
???
The new Wrangler in any form is a Damn fine off road vehicle, and MORE capable than anything offered by the Competition from anyone anywhere. Same goes for The Ram, a 1500/2500 Ram is a very capable off road machine, even before you add the Power Wagon. IMHO the Rubicon and Power Wagon are by far the most capable off road vehicles ever sold in the US. Hell the Rubicon and Power Wagon are MORE capable than any Military spec vehicle. I'd like to see an ORT HEMI Wrangler, and an ORT 6.1L Power Wagon myself. Id replace both my Wrangler and V-10 Ram with those. I'd consider the Cummins in the Ram too, if they could fit the winch and intercooler somehow. I'd still lean towards the 6.1 though.
The development of ORT gives me hope the new Ram (09) will still offer a Power Wagon edition. I was worried, as sales do not seem too strong for the package (At least around here, I have only seen 2 since 2005)
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2006 GCSRT-8 6.1
2005 SRT-4 ACR 2.4
1999 Ram 2500 SB 4x4 V-10
1998 Wrangler Sport 4.0
1971 VW Super Beetle 2287
1953 Plymouth Wagon 218/T5
1952 Willys 'Melon wagon 132
1950 Chrysler New Yorker 440/518
That needs to be taken seriously. It has to go way beyond trim kits and different wheels wrapped in one-size-larger shit ATs.
The SRTs are pretty damn serious. I figure these will be equally serious.
Honestly, it's way easier to make a car go fast and handle well than it is to make a serious off-road vehicle that won't break shit or flop/roll.
Short of the Rubicon and Power Wagon, nothing from ChryCo was/is all the impressive in stock trim off road.
???
The new Wrangler in any form is a Damn fine off road vehicle, and MORE capable than anything offered by the Competition from anyone anywhere. Same goes for The Ram, a 1500/2500 Ram is a very capable off road machine, even before you add the Power Wagon. IMHO the Rubicon and Power Wagon are by far the most capable off road vehicles ever sold in the US. Hell the Rubicon and Power Wagon are MORE capable than any Military spec vehicle. I'd like to see an ORT HEMI Wrangler, and an ORT 6.1L Power Wagon myself. Id replace both my Wrangler and V-10 Ram with those. I'd consider the Cummins in the Ram too, if they could fit the winch and intercooler somehow. I'd still lean towards the 6.1 though.
The development of ORT gives me hope the new Ram (09) will still offer a Power Wagon edition. I was worried, as sales do not seem too strong for the package (At least around here, I have only seen 2 since 2005)
The new Wrangler in any form is a Damn fine off road vehicle, and MORE capable than anything offered by the Competition from anyone anywhere. Same goes for The Ram, a 1500/2500 Ram is a very capable off road machine, even before you add the Power Wagon. IMHO the Rubicon and Power Wagon are by far the most capable off road vehicles ever sold in the US. Hell the Rubicon and Power Wagon are MORE capable than any Military spec vehicle. I'd like to see an ORT HEMI Wrangler, and an ORT 6.1L Power Wagon myself. Id replace both my Wrangler and V-10 Ram with those. I'd consider the Cummins in the Ram too, if they could fit the winch and intercooler somehow. I'd still lean towards the 6.1 though.
The development of ORT gives me hope the new Ram (09) will still offer a Power Wagon edition. I was worried, as sales do not seem too strong for the package (At least around here, I have only seen 2 since 2005)
An H3 or FJ Cruiser are both right with a stock non-Rubicon JK, and in some ways surpass even a Rubicon. The Ram may be better off road than other full-size pickups, but a stock Cherokee can probably get father.
There are plenty Mil-Spec vehicles that would run a Rubicon or Power Wagon over. Almost anything Oshkosh makes, for instance.
When you get right down to it, wheeling is probably 10% vehicle, 90% driver. If the driver is there, though, the vehicle can make a big difference.
I think this truck will again raise the bar or Dodge will lose its design influence in this arena...this is where your cropping may do some justice.
explain that part, plz? Do you mean they may change over to mine, or what? [or at least what you CAN tell me]
As for photoshoppin this one - i'm not sure I am allowed to the ppl that used to do the shots, told me i shouldn't do them if i want to avoid being sued. lol [jim and brenda priddy(sp?), i think?]
um.. no - their copyrighted images, are their copyrighted images, doesn't matter where i find them :P -- but i dont think these are preddy images anyways. Instead of chopping, i did a quick sketch; i'm having trouble with the angles of the hood & fender, so i did "kind of" 2 versions on the left truck. lol
The new Wrangler in any form is a Damn fine off road vehicle, and MORE capable than anything offered by the Competition from anyone anywhere. Same goes for The Ram, a 1500/2500 Ram is a very capable off road machine, even before you add the Power Wagon. IMHO the Rubicon and Power Wagon are by far the most capable off road vehicles ever sold in the US. Hell the Rubicon and Power Wagon are MORE capable than any Military spec vehicle. I'd like to see an ORT HEMI Wrangler, and an ORT 6.1L Power Wagon myself. Id replace both my Wrangler and V-10 Ram with those. I'd consider the Cummins in the Ram too, if they could fit the winch and intercooler somehow. I'd still lean towards the 6.1 though.
The development of ORT gives me hope the new Ram (09) will still offer a Power Wagon edition. I was worried, as sales do not seem too strong for the package (At least around here, I have only seen 2 since 2005)
An H3 or FJ Cruiser are both right with a stock non-Rubicon JK, and in some ways surpass even a Rubicon. The Ram may be better off road than other full-size pickups, but a stock Cherokee can probably get father.
There are plenty Mil-Spec vehicles that would run a Rubicon or Power Wagon over. Almost anything Oshkosh makes, for instance.
When you get right down to it, wheeling is probably 10% vehicle, 90% driver. If the driver is there, though, the vehicle can make a big difference.
I dont know where you wheel, but an Oshkosh would never follow be able to follow my TJ at any of my normal haunts. The FJ is a joke, have you ever driven one? I have, and they suck as trailvehicles, Visibility is horrendous, and the doors sound like they are going to fall off on any time. Not to mention the quality issues... They are having SERIOUS unibody issues, sheet metal tearing, spot welds ripping apart. Suprising coming from Toyota. I used to own a 85 SR5 extra cab with a 22RE. That truck was bullit proof, unfortunately it was not salt proof, it literally rusted away. But it ran for 300,000 + miles, the engine was sold, and the front end was used by a buddy to do a SFA swap on a mid 90's toy.
The H3 is a turd. No way it could keep up with a Wrangler with the rear locker and a disco swaybar ( they are available on non rubys)
Well, an Oshkosh could probably drive through most of the things we'd drive around and between. It was a joke more than anything.
yeah, the FJ surprised me. I mean, technically they drive well and really are capable off road but the visibility (especially rearward) is horrendous. I really don't remember what the doors sounded like. I've seen the Toyota thread about the front end unibody cracks, has it gotten much worse?
My friends BIL has a stock FJ and it couldn't follow my XJ (265/75s, ~3.5" lift, Truetracks F&R w/ 4:10s) to some places. Forget about matching articulation. However, it's not a bad truck, and got way further than I expected, even though I found things it couldn't get past (even driving it myself). Way too wide... It was scary (I know the owner was shitting his pants when I drove it), but I'm afraid I'll have the same problem with a JK.
As for the H3, I only know it's not a pice of shit off road, I have yet to drive on myself. On a trail, you'd have to be in some pretty serious shit for a stock X to get away from it, from what I've seen. You're right that it will happen, though. Shit visibility all around with this one.
Sorry if what I said came across as bashing the JKs. If they had a better engine (looking forward to the 4.0L V6), I'd probably be blissfully HMAM'ing one... I just think that Jeep needs to take off roading a bit more seriously with its other vehicles, and even the Wrangler in some ways (the JK is a great improvement, though).
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