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Old 11-09-2012, 12:18 AM   #46 (permalink)
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And not enough people here would pay $35k for a Ford Focus. No matter how many drive wheels it has.
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Old 11-09-2012, 06:33 AM   #47 (permalink)
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Quote: Originally Posted by JmalB View Post
And not enough people here would pay $35k for a Ford Focus. No matter how many drive wheels it has.

People are paying 40k for an sti so I don't see why not and were not talking about your traditioanl focus here. The car would have to be turbocharged and AWD with all the modern features and amenities you would expect. Personally if I were in the market for that type of vehicle and those were my two choices I would take the Ford.

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Old 11-09-2012, 11:02 AM   #48 (permalink)
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I dont think the Ford numbers are WHP
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Old 11-09-2012, 12:06 PM   #49 (permalink)
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Well, of course not. And technically the NSRTs numbers were not either. SRT never does chassis dynos. But they did, and still do, I think, is to do testing under very pessimistic conditions. All such testing is done under SAE guidelines, which include things like temp, humidity, fuel quality, etc.

Now, used to be, manufacturers would "massage" the conditions to get better numbers, which is why the standard was revised a few years back. Didnt affect some makers, who were adhering to the standard right along, but a few got caught out and had to change things up.

Dinan showed once that by simply changing the amount of airflow through the grill, he could make an M3 produce whatever whp numbers he wanted. Built a damn thing almost like a wind tunnel.

In any case, SRT uses worst case conditions, which ensures that the customer is almost always getting "rated" numbers. Once you add in really good conditions, you get better numbers, which is why SRTs usually show better than rated numbers at the wheels. And get timeslips that should need more than "rated" power. Nothing in the spec says you cant use worse conditions, but most makers dont.
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Old 11-09-2012, 12:19 PM   #50 (permalink)
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From the dyno charts I've seen, the spec numbers look a little underrated if anything. The really encouraging thing is that tuning is already available and with simple things like exhausts, intakes and tunes there are already people getting over 300whp out of it.
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Old 11-12-2012, 02:12 AM   #51 (permalink)
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Quote: Originally Posted by A-Town SRT View Post
People are paying 40k for an sti so I don't see why not and were not talking about your traditioanl focus here. The car would have to be turbocharged and AWD with all the modern features and amenities you would expect. Personally if I were in the market for that type of vehicle and those were my two choices I would take the Ford.

People were buying the STI's for their WRC appeal. Nevermind neither Subaru or Mistubishi compete there any more. I doubt most U.S. buyers even know which manufactures are competing now.
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Old 11-12-2012, 08:52 AM   #52 (permalink)
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I came to the end of this thread looking for more timeslips from the new ST and now it's all STI talk! I've got a buddy at a ford dealership, I might go down there today (day off!) and see if he'll let me take it on the highway, I saw one yesterday for the first time, and to be honest, I forgot they were gonna start selling them in America...
Sure looks good though! Central big exhaust pipe is a bit goofy but whatever.
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Old 11-12-2012, 10:31 AM   #53 (permalink)
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I went to a few Focus websites and poked around. I saw a post where someone claimed to have hit a high 13, but no slip. Most are mid 14s. The tuners are getting some good power out of them, but no track times for those cars yet.

I started a small poop-storm when I asked if anyone had tried E85.
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Old 11-12-2012, 11:25 AM   #54 (permalink)
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Quote: Originally Posted by enginjoe View Post
I went to a few Focus websites and poked around. I saw a post where someone claimed to have hit a high 13, but no slip. Most are mid 14s. The tuners are getting some good power out of them, but no track times for those cars yet.

I started a small poop-storm when I asked if anyone had tried E85.

The good kind of poop storm or the bad?
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Old 11-12-2012, 11:57 AM   #55 (permalink)
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They think I'm an idiot over there. Now, while that may be true, they are very under-educated on the use of E85.
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Old 11-13-2012, 01:33 PM   #56 (permalink)
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for the record glh :
nSRT numbers advertised from Dodge ( 2003 -2005 ) matched actual chassis dyno numbers !

Nevertheless , ST , MS3 , and GTI all seem pretty quick and nimble despite being overweight pigs.
very impressive.

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Old 11-13-2012, 05:22 PM   #57 (permalink)
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That was my point. The NSRTs almost always showed that, but not because SRT used numbers from a chassis dyno. For the reason stated, which was a point raised by I think Dr Who in a post once, that SRT tested for "score" under brutal conditions. So your usual %15 drivetrain loss was still there, but since the flywheel test conditions were harsh, when you gave it good conditions, you got better numbers. So both numbers were accurate, for the conditions.

Like timing a runner with weights on wrists and ankles, then timing him again without. And it wasn't done to play with insurance companies, or put something over on the govt. Was simply done so that a guy who lived in CA with crappy gas, and had crappy atmospheric conditions would still get 215/230 hp at the flywheel. Remember, this was not super long after the Ford Cobra fiasco, and nobody putting out a performance car was taking any chances with power ratings with a dyno happy customer base. As Mazda learned to their dismay in 2003 themselves. Cost them millions.
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Old 11-13-2012, 08:33 PM   #58 (permalink)
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Tangent mode, rumor was back in the late days of the early 2.2 and 2.5L Shelby and turbo Dodge many of the powertrains were tested at Chrysler de México's facility in Mexico City which is at a really high elevation and would result in slightly inflated power numbers when tested at sea level.


Back to the thread since it wasn't about the Neon, how about some pictures of the car being discussed.











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Old 11-13-2012, 08:39 PM   #59 (permalink)
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How are you liking the ST so far?
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Old 11-13-2012, 09:04 PM   #60 (permalink)
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Not too bad. I'm coming up on a thousand miles and have done quite a bit of backroad driving and a week or so of commuting. It's pretty refined, rides well, very good brakes and the power is okay (probably about as quick as a stock SRT-4). Fuel economy is very good if you don't put your foot in it all the time and the car is nicely optioned for the money.

The other performance metric everyone is praising the car for, handling, is also good but you can tell the computer is at work. The steering is nicely weighted and doesn't feel too artificial but if you toss the car into a turn where it should understeer the ABS unit brakes the outside front wheel which does rotate the car but kind-of feels like driving a video game. I'm sure it would produce some nice numbers on the track but after tracking both cars and putting a lot of miles on it I still think the Cobalt SS Turbo is the benchmark front driver here in the US.
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